Advancing Accessibility Podcast: Episode 4

The fourth episode of our limited podcast series is live, with host Steve Saylor and guest Jessica Roache, Senior Corporate Communications Manager at Ubisoft.

Listen on Spotify, or watch on YouTube.

Transcript of Episode 4

Speaker S1:       (0:00:00):
Welcome to Advancing Accessibility, a mini podcast series focusing on the great work done by individuals pushing for accessibility in the gaming industry and answering the question, what’s next? This show is brought to you by Players Research’s Advancing Accessibility. To find out more about what Player Research and this initiative is, you can be able to go to the link in the show notes or to PlayerResearch.com I’m Steve Saylor, host for the show and accessibility consultant, content creator, and Twitch Ambassador, uh, as well as host of this series today’s Today’s episode is all about PR, marketing and accessibility. My guest today is Jessica Roache, the Senior Corporate and Accessibility Communications Manager at Ubisoft. Talk about a mouthful right there. Uh, and also just a great human being and friend. Hi, Jessica. How are you today?
Speaker S2:       (0:00:45):
Hi. I’m great, and thank you so much for having me, Steve.
Speaker S1:       (0:00:48):
Of course. So, you know what, as I do with, uh, all these shows, is I want to be able to kind of get to know, uh, you a little bit, and you let the audience get to know you a little bit. So why don’t you tell us, like, a little bit about yourself?
Speaker S2:       (0:01:00):
Yeah. So, like you said, I’m a senior corporate communications manager at Ubisoft. Um, but on a more personal level, I’m from North Carolina. Um, I moved to the Bay area after college, and I’ve been here, um, about a decade, so I’ve been working, um, started out on the agency side, working for 2K’s PR agency and then moved over in-house to Ubisoft, and that’s where I met our accessibility team and started this work.
Speaker S1:       (0:01:28):
Very cool. I will say that if you ever need recommendations of where to be able to go in San Francisco, Jessica is definitely the right person to be able to talk to. Did you show me some great spots in the, uh, it was in the mission essentially was where we were.
Speaker S2:       (0:01:41):
Yeah, we were at El Tatio, a really beautiful rooftop bar with a sometimes view depending on the clouds. Um, but, um. Yeah, it was great. Got a list? Yeah.
Speaker S1:       (0:01:51):
I love that wine bar we went to that had, like, it was like a, like a that had like a whole bunch of plants and stuff in it to.
Speaker S2:       (0:01:56):
Like plant store, slash wine bar. That was.
Speaker S1:       (0:01:58):
Yeah, that was great I love that. So anyway, yeah just great recommendation for that. So what was it that kind of got you interested in gaming? Was that something that, uh, you know, you picked up as a kid, or was it something as, as you got older? Like what? What was what interest you about gaming and like, what were some of your favorite games, uh, like, during that, uh, when you discovered it.
Speaker S2:       (0:02:18):
So I actually got into gaming through work, um, which I think is a different story than a lot of people in this industry. So, um, it was at my agency. I was sort of assigned to the 2K account, and I had other accounts as well, other tech clients. Um, but I really loved gaming, and I think, um, you know, I think just going to E3, going to some of these different events and just capturing like the energy, enthusiasm and excitement that this community had for gaming, um, made me realize, like, I don’t know, I can I can talk about different tech products, but gaming is this really exciting community. So kind of from there, I wanted to deepen my knowledge of how to do games PR and so I started playing games. Um, yeah, in my 20s. So it was something where I definitely had some friends, kind of like walk me through some of the, the things that I think people just know. Growing up playing games, you figured out, um, some of the, um, first person shooters I’d play. I don’t know what I’m doing. So I just kind of, like, jumped in and, um, I think my, uh, favorite, my favorite Ubisoft game is Immortals Fenyx rising. So that’s like, the only I’m not a game finisher. Um, that’s the only game I really like played start to finish. Oh, cool. Um, but yeah, also getting into some Indies like Spiritfarer, um, you know, starting and playing on the switch. So it, it’s, it’s been great to kind of see the passion for gaming kind of first through the community. And then from a personal level.
Speaker S1:       (0:03:46):
I love that. And actually, you know, that’s something that we haven’t really discussed in like in the accessibility community, even, uh, about sort of like when you jump into games like later on in life, like a lot of us sort of soon we try to be able to play like as we’re kids, but, you know, we can’t. So it wasn’t until much later we can be able to jump into it. But for you, as you’re kind of like you got into it in your in your 20s, what were some of the like the, the challenges or some of the fun stuff that you kind of discovered as you were jumping into games for the first time?
Speaker S2:       (0:04:16):
Yeah, I’m laughing because, um, the first game I wanted to play was BioShock Infinite. Like I said, I was working for UK, so I did work on the, um, with irrational a bit. Um, so I was playing with my friend, and I’m just, you know, running around. I’m shooting. I’m like, whatever. And he’s looking in all the cabinets, uh, you know, for for different help and different items. And I just it didn’t occur to me that I could go over to a corner and, like, look around and gather, you know, different, uh, items to enhance my gameplay. So I was just kind of going through without any sort of leveling up, um, just not really knowing that. Oh, if I explore uh, looking different things, I can, um, uh, find out, find all these goodies. Oh, that was something to me. Like, I just it wasn’t spelled out for me. And I think as a gamer, you know, to go look in the drawer. Um, but I didn’t, so it had to be taught.
Speaker S1:       (0:05:09):
Well, no, that’s honestly great, because it’s like, you know, we talk about, um, often, like we sort of take for granted essentially that, you know, any game that comes out, it’s like there’s sort of an inherent language that people learn when, when like, as you know, for over decades, essentially of, of playing video games. But, um, it’s very, uh, it’s not necessarily rare, but it’s definitely like with something that we should that we like just in the gaming community should touch on more is. Yeah. What about, you know, those those folks that essentially are jumping into a genre for the first time or jumping into gaming for the first time? Um, From your perspective? Um, for like the like, we sometime like, I don’t know if they call it, uh, what they call this at Ubisoft, but, uh, we’re in some of the places I’ve worked. They call this the the Phatswe or the first time user experience. What are some of the things that you wish games would do more in that first time user experience? Uh, like to kind of help, you know, players either, again, jump into a new genre or just, you know, jumping into gaming, period.
Speaker S2:       (0:06:12):
Yeah, I think I mean, I guess I kind of call it the tutorial menu. I think games have gotten better at it in the decade that I started playing. So I think about some older games, you just kind of boot up and start playing. Um, but I really appreciate and I think the most recent game I played was Prince of Persia The Lost Crown and just kind of walking me through what to do, that kind of, um, starting out in, um, you know, more of a guided, guided sense, um, and I and I think too, I mean, personally, I do a lot of googling as I play games. So, um, it’s I’m not really answering the question. I think it’s a good question, but I think that in, um, in general, games have just gotten better at making it feel more, open to new players from the beginning.
Speaker S1:       (0:06:56):
Okay, so when like using Prince of Persia as kind of an example, like because that game is, you know, like you’re right, it definitely does have a pretty good onboarding experience for learning the mechanics and everything with within the game. But it also is known for uh, it’s sort of, uh, a steep combat curve, as it were, being able to learn all the different moves. And it can be challenging, especially when you’re kind of going up against like certain bosses. Um, what were some of the challenges like, like what were some of the challenges or even like, was there any like accessibility that, uh, that within the game that helped you be able to play that? Or did you find like, yeah, no, this is a little a little too advanced complex for me. Like, this is just I’ll, I’ll maybe come back to it at a certain point or whichever.
Speaker S2:       (0:07:40):
Yeah, I did get to the point where I felt like I had had a good time in the game, but I didn’t want to continue, um, pushing through for me. So I was able to explore, um, a good amount, but I think, um, yeah, the eye of the Wanderer, the, um, trying to think what else? Uh, what it’s called the portals that open.
Speaker S1:       (0:08:02):
Oh my goodness. Yes.
Speaker S2:       (0:08:04):
Yeah. I can’t think of the feature name right now off the top of my head, but yeah, definitely the the portals where you can skip some of the more difficult platforming was really helpful and helping me get through and see more of the story. Um, but yeah, like I said, I’m not really a game completionist, so I think it really depends on the type of game, but I think Prince of Persia The Lost Crown was the type of game that I could actually take a stab at and see if I liked it and if I wanted to stick with it. Um, and so, yeah, it opened it up for me.
Speaker S1:       (0:08:32):
Okay, cool. And he actually said something that, uh, that even sparked a little bit. Another question in my head was because he mentioned about you got the, the the you got the fun that you needed out of it without necessarily completing the game. And, you know, as also someone who is a chronic not, you know, not completionist in a game, uh, there’s very rare where I can actually be able to roll credits on any game. Um, where do you find that for yourself? Like, what are the things you kind of are like when you kind of get when you look back on certain gaming experiences being like, okay, you know what? I got the fun out of it. Like, uh, this is it. This is it for me. Like what? Like because some folks, you know, they feel guilty about not finishing a game, or they’ve got so many games that are just, you know, on their backlog that don’t they don’t finish. And I will feel guilty sometimes about that. But when you like what are what are some of the things that you look for when you’re enjoying a game? Or that a game is fun for you and then, you know, if you can’t finish a game, it’s like, okay, you know what? I got this kind of experience while playing that I enjoyed the most. Like, where are some of the things that you’re looking for when you’re when you’re playing a game like that?
Speaker S2:       (0:09:34):
Yeah, I really like narrative based games. So I think just getting lost in the story. So on the flip side, I, I am kind of a completionist when it comes to books. So I think, ah, okay. Okay. So, you know, I like to see that story. Um, I don’t feel the same way with movies. Um, so I don’t know what that what that says about me, but I do think that I kind of enjoy that compelling narrative. Um, and again, Spiritfarer I thought was a great game that kind of kept me moving with the gameplay. You know, it wasn’t that difficult of gameplay, but it did have this story that kind of helped me, you know, want to keep moving forward. Um, What Remains of Edith Finch? That’s another. Another good one. Sure. So, okay, I think it’s narrative for me, but also the visuals. I think if I like the art style, I’m more likely to keep going.
Speaker S1:       (0:10:20):
Yeah, that’s generally two things I also look at as well. Like I’m definitely very much a story guy. Like I’m sort of again, the opposite of yours. Like I can enjoy like and finish movies and sometimes TV shows, but books I have, I have trouble trying to be able to complete like as well. I think it’s more of it takes away like where I’m watching a movie or TV show essentially like, or even technically, I guess even playing a game is that, you know, that that experience is catered for me because it’s it’s what the creators had wanted it. But where I find that and I think, like, I think probably maybe, uh, for you, is it for books is that, you know, you create the story in your head like you’re. It’s that imagination. So you’re more invested in it because it’s what you created of it. Uh, and I guess gaming is, in a sense, like there is that kind of connection between the developer, like the creator and the gamer or the player essentially, that, you know, there’s that the player can can create their own experiences, but then also the creator can create their experiences too. So, um, but hey, like, like, you know, as we said, like playing games for fun. It’s okay to be able to not finish games. It’s it’s fine. You’re okay. It’s great. Yeah.
Speaker S2:       (0:11:25):
No one’s keeping track, you know, like no one but me. It’s exactly.
Speaker S1:       (0:11:29):
Yeah.
Speaker S2:       (0:11:29):
You know, about having fun.
Speaker S1:       (0:11:31):
Exactly. There should be, like, an achievement unlocked me and, like, okay, I’ve unlocked the fun. It’s good, we’re good. And then that’s it. Yeah. Stop the game.
Speaker S2:       (0:11:39):
Absolutely. And sometimes it just depends on time of life. Like, I don’t play games as much in the summer because the days are longer and I’m doing things outdoors. I play games a lot more in the winter it’s dark, so it really depends on when the game launches and when I get my hands on it too.
Speaker S1:       (0:11:53):
I definitely understand that for sure. Um, okay, so shifting gears just a tiny bit, I wanted to kind of ask you, um, what kind of got you interested in the accessibility side because he said, you mentioned you worked at, uh, you know, some previous places before, obviously, uh, Ubisoft and, uh, and then sort of helping to spearhead a lot of the Ubisoft PR initiatives, uh, for accessibility. But I wanted to know. Yeah, get to know, like, what is what would sort of got you interested in accessibility? Kind of, uh, initially.
Speaker S2:       (0:12:21):
Yeah. So my initial introduction to accessibility was through David Tisserand, our current Director of Accessibility. You know, you know him. Um, probably everyone listening to this podcast is familiar with who he is, but if not, he’s, um, a really wonderful human and someone who’s just very passionate about their work. Um, and so it had kind of come my way because he had an interview request come in. So, um, we work with speakers to help them prepare for any type of interview, podcast, um, speaking opportunity. Um, so I was kind of assigned. Oh, yeah, I’ll take this one. So it just started with a simple part of my job. Um, but I think what where it really took off is realizing that David was doing really great work. Um, there was a really cool story to tell, and there wasn’t really anybody on my team that was sort of had the the bandwidth and the assignment to kind of, let’s build this out. Let’s talk about it. So I happen to have the time and think it was worth pursuing. And so, um, I went to Montreal for something else, and I met up with David, um, and I told the story at #GAConf. But it was funny because, um, you know, I think David kind of had the impression of, like, the PR police was coming in, um, you know, maybe going to tell him what he can and can’t do. And it was really more of a meeting of me wanting to know, like, what are you doing? And how can PR support that? Like, how can we improve some of the um, and I guess a specific example, it’s he was communicating a lot on his Twitter. Um, and so that’s something that, you know, like, can we, can we do a blog post about this instead? Can we kind of wrap that in, can we pitch it to press? Like, what can we do in a more structured and kind of, you know, communications lovers sense, um, how can we amplify and support this work? So needless to say, it was a great meeting. Um, it kind of went from there just learning what his team was working on. Um, and then how we could support that through communications.
Speaker S1:       (0:14:18):
I love that. And, and kind of, um, like to kind of give a bit of context for those who are listening, who may not know, Ubisoft has really been kind of at the forefront of something that I’m like, I and other, you know, advocates have been kind of pushing for. Um, within the industry is just more information about accessibility in the games that are coming out. And it just like it’s consistent. It’s been consistently uh, or. Yeah, it’s been consistent pretty much since um, ’round basically around like 20 just before 20 like the pandemic in 2020. Like around like 2018 is when kind of I sort of really kind of discovered a lot of it was just because I was willing to be able to talk about accessibility, even though it may not have everything that we that disabled players might need or want, it was just being able to have that information available and before a game was like had launched was something that we hadn’t, we hadn’t really seen before. And also in a sense, we actually have not really seen a lot of that since. But as the years have gone by, Ubisoft has really been, you know, been pushing that in the forefront and keep adding more like with obviously with obviously with the Ubisoft news team and creating like regular content on that side but including accessibility as part of it. But also for great example, last year I was actually like at the great opportunity to be able to be at Summer Game Fest Live. Um, when they announced Prince of Persia Lost Crown and my Discord, which is full of accessibility, uh, accessibility, people was blowing up because they were like, oh, Ubisoft also announced the accessibility in this game, too. And I was like, oh, like literally. It was instantly once the trailer kind of went live. And normally we haven’t really seen a lot of that. Um, so I’m very excited to be able to talk to you today, to kind of go through the basically like the nitty gritty of of how that sort of came to be and what are some of the things that you’re, that you’re doing over at Ubisoft and kind of helping to spearhead, uh, over there. So let’s kind of start off with, um, because you said you had that conversation with, with David and, uh, and you wanted to be able to kind of, uh, learn more how to be able to support his, his team and the accessibility being done at Ubisoft. What were some of like the, uh, the sort of the takeaways that you had with working with David, uh, at the beginning and then you were like, okay, what can we be able to do within our current, uh, sort of PR, marketing, um, sort of setup and procedure to kind of not like to figure out ways to integrate accessibility into that.
Speaker S2:       (0:16:42):
Yeah. So I think the first, um, one of the most important things to David was really building everything that he did based on the feedback from the community. So that’s something we 100% wanted to take notes from, is that we’re not just doing this for, you know, to look good or whatever. Like we are doing this to meet specific needs that specific people in the community are asking about. So making sure to amplify and elevate their voices. So that was kind of leads into why we did, um, in the blog post you’re referring to with Ubisoft news, we call them accessibility spotlights. So, you know, that’s something that, um, it really was in response to what people from the community, including yourself, were asking for. We want the information before the game’s out so we can know whether or not we can buy it, whether or not we can participate in all of the kind of hype leading up to the game. Well, is it going to be accessible for me? Um, so that was really the need that we set out to meet. Um, and you’re right, 2020, we started, um, doing kind of a blog post for Assassin’s Creed Valhalla, Immortals Fenyx Rising and Watch Dogs Legion. Um, so we’re kind of figuring out the format. Then we were working with each team like, hey, what’s in the game? How can we talk about it? Um, but after that, we really decided to okay, we know what we need to say. Let’s make a standard format. Let’s call it something specific, so that when we can go to a team, we’re going to talk about let’s do your accessibility spotlight, not just, hey, let’s put together a blog post containing all of the information about accessibility in your game, or we’ll do an interview and we’ll have a list like we have a brand, we have kind of a standard, um, format. And I think, um, you know, we have kickoff calls with the team. So just really creating something, um, based on a need from the community, standardizing the process and then trying to get those out before launch.
Speaker S1:       (0:18:36):
Okay, so when you’re talking to the developers or the or the studio or the team that’s, that’s working, that’s already able to kind of gather, um, that accessibility information, what are some of the like, uh, I don’t want to say challenges in a sense, but because, like, I know it’s oftentimes whenever, like, developers may not know sort of what what they can like, what they’re able to talk about or, you know, features that essentially are still being worked on, but not sure whether it’s going to end up in the final game. Like, how do like how do you sort of approach a developer and be like, okay, let let’s let like, you know, let’s like have a good focus and a highlight. Uh, like what you’re the great stuff that you’re doing there. Like, what are the kind of what are those conversations like when you’re, when you’re talking to them?
Speaker S2:       (0:19:19):
So I think a lot of it is about, you know, education. So starting with like what’s the need? Like, why are we doing this? Like, this is yes, we’re the PR team, but we’re not doing this necessarily as a marketing beat. We’re doing this in order to provide crucial information to a group of people that need it. So just kind of setting, um, setting the stage for here’s our goals. Um, but we also really rely on the dev team. Like we don’t want to push them to share information before they’re ready. And to your point, if we don’t know if the game is going to have something or not, if we put something out before, we know it’s a little premature, right? So we don’t want to say it and then have to cut it or not say something that’s actually, you know, really going to be great for the community. So it’s kind of an ongoing conversation. I think our best, um, point of success is just getting in front of the dev teams and saying, here’s what we want to do. So we’re aligned on the direction. But the timing, it really does depend on the dynamics of that game of the studio, the team, the individual. Like there’s so many different factors that go into determining the timing. Um, what we have said over the last couple of years is we want one month before launch. So that’s kind of our as a minimum. And we don’t always hit it. Sometimes it’s a few days for different reasons. Um, but I will say over the past, I think the past year or so, we’ve, we’ve gotten them all out, at least right before lunch, if not a good amount of time before launch. Um, but that’s something that’s kind of our hard line in the sand. We’re like, it’s got to be out before lunch. We want people to know whether or not they can buy the game before they’re at that point of purchase. So, um, that’s something too. We’ve had a lot of teams come alongside us and definitely be on board with, okay, we want to do this. It’s more about the logistics of figuring out when and what do we say. And you know, when is this feature going to be confirmed?
Speaker S1:       (0:21:11):
When you have like an announcement like that, where you know, you’re going to like that’s going to be something that is going to be talked about either, whether it’s for around the announcement of a game or it’s like, yeah, got a feature that, uh, essentially that you want to be able to highlight, uh, for accessibility. When do you usually talk to the development team about that, about that. You said, like, you know, some features are kind of built into the design, but um, like when do you usually talking to them? Uh, before that, uh, that article gets, uh, gets made. And then what are the sort of the procedures that you would go through to? Okay. Like we got this feature like we’re talking to the devs, like, well, and then writing it all up. So what are sort of that, that kind of workflow? Uh, to kind of, uh, be able to build, uh, build that out for, uh, up until launch.
Speaker S2:       (0:21:51):
Yeah, it timing depends. But we’ve talked to teams, you know, up to a year before their launch. Um, and it’s really just like I said, about getting it on their radar. So, um, having a lot of times we have a kickoff call. Sometimes if we work with a team in the past, we’ll just do a kickoff email like, hey, it’s time for your spotlight. Um, and that’s actually been something that’s great Like over the past four years that we’ve been building this program, we were initially doing a lot of explaining of here’s what accessibility is, here’s why it’s important. And now we’re kind of summarizing that a little bit more like, hey, accessibility is important. Here’s why. And they’re like, I know what’s next. So that’s been really, really great to kind of accompany a lot of our colleagues on that journey. Um, so we have a kick off call. Um, and then we kind of ask them, you know, what are we thinking? We’re going to have a lot, a lot to offer. Has the game been designed with accessibility in mind? Is it going to, you know, be something that we know a little bit closer to launch? Um, just getting a sense of where that game is and what the team wants to focus on. Um, and then we find the right person. So who’s the person going to be doing the Q&A? So who’s the person maybe leading it. And it’s interesting too because it can be a variety of different job functions. So it can be a UX director. It can be a game director. Um, it can be someone on the QA accessibility team or QC. Um, so it really depends. So it’s kind of identifying, you know, who’s the person that is going to have the time or interest or passion in helping us pull this together and telling that complete story. Sometimes it’s more of a team effort, and we have different speakers contributing on the different things that they worked on. So, um, it’s definitely a fluid process, and it depends on what that team, their kind of dynamics and what they want to talk about. And then our role is to really kind of bring that together, uh, work with the Ubisoft news team. And then we do have like a standard format for the list of accessibility features. And we always like run that by the accessibility team because sometimes they will also have additional insight on, you know, hey, also this feature that you don’t think is for accessibility should be included because it can help in this way. So they’re kind of adding their expertise and we bring it all together. Then we work with the social team, Ubisoft news team. Um, yeah. And just like any other kind of comms pulse point, we agree on the right timing. Um, send it out.
Speaker S1:       (0:24:16):
I love that, and, uh, well, like, when, like what? We sort of went into the decision of trying to be able to make, like, make sure that a lot of that, like, for instance, like. Yeah, again, using the example of Prince of Persia with that article coming out of accessibility spotlight at like literally at an ounce at a time, what was like, uh, what was like went into the decision to try to be able to make sure that that goes out, like at the same time, because Ubisoft has been very good at that. Like, no matter what announcement is made, whatever trailer comes out, there’s always some sort of accessibility information, um, or just even like, uh, I definitely want to talk about sort of like maybe like the accessibility, like trailer accessible trailers and stuff like that too. Um, what are some like what are some of the processes to be able to, to build, to put that into place so that, you know, these things are like are ready like at this like, and are given the same, essentially the same weight as any other sort of marketing beat, um, when you’re marketing the game.
Speaker S2:       (0:25:10):
Yeah. So that um, I think for that I will tell you more about the comms team. Ubisoft. So I’m on the corporate comms team. Um, and then we we are an army. We’re a really big comms team. Um, and so over the years, what the corporate team, my, myself and my colleagues have been doing is updating the larger comms team on here’s the accessibility best practices. So they’ve really followed us through this whole journey. So, um, I also want to give credit my colleague Holly, she actually was working on accessibility and reaching out to the creators in that space even before I joined Ubisoft. So I kind of picked up the work we were doing from her. Um, and so just having those allies on the comms team. So, for example, you know, Holly will be in charge of making, you know, the whole life cycle of, um, promoting a certain, a certain game. So when I partner with Holly, every game that she works on, um, she’s thinking about accessibility. So she’s done multiple spotlights across different teams. Um, so I think just having that continuity, too, of having more and more people understand the goals, we’re not introducing the concept to people every time we’re partnering with them, and then they’re kind of building on they’re like, oh, actually, I saw something in this email we sent out, but there wasn’t alt text on this image. So they’re coming to us with ideas as well. So it’s been a lot of just education kind of on our internal teams and then having those teams really build it into their marketing. And I think just to answer your question too, like it’s up to the PR person who’s managing the comms for the whole game to decide the right timing. So when they’re on board and kind of have the same goals as us, they can align it like, okay, yeah, we want to do this one out, announce we want to do this closer to launch. So that’s again just a close partnership we have with those other comms colleagues.
Speaker S1:       (0:27:03):
I love that. Um, and so I do want to be able to mention this because like, as of a recording, this, um, Ubisoft forward is coming up. Um, so how much is your team involved in including accessibility? Because for context, for those listening like Ubisoft, forwards have been kind of again leading the way as far as making like making sure that that event, uh, or showcase is extremely accessible to as many people as possible. They were the ones that sort of spearheaded a lot of, uh, subtitles in multiple languages, audio descriptions, uh, for their trailers, if, if there are like, if they’re able to get some and also even the, uh, like the showcase themselves are generally been, you know, consistently, uh, accessible from uh, like for the past couple of years now to the point where it’s like now other studios are trying are catching up to what Ubisoft has been able to do. So how much involvement do you have with, uh, like planning event like that to be able to make it accessible, but then also, you know, letting folks know, hey, you can also be able to like, watch this or view this or listen to this in any format that’s accessible or more comfortable, uh, to them.
Speaker S2:       (0:28:08):
So it’s a very involved process involving a lot of teams. Um, what I will say is I absolutely love working with the Ubisoft Forward Events team, so there’s kind of a core team that makes sure the show is produced. Um, they’re they’re wonderful. And they had been considering accessibility, you know, back when we were doing our press conferences at E3. So it was something that was on their radar. And then as we learned more from the communication side and kind of partnering with David more, um, we just had more and more conversations where. Um, back in 2020, David introduced us like, hey, we thought about doing audio description and we didn’t know about it. So we kind of went down the path of learning what it was, um, talking to different brand teams. And we started with the Assassin’s Creed Valhalla team. Um, and so that was something where the, the team working on, on the game, um, working on the marketing trailers. Uh, they were super on board. They’re like, oh, this is cool. Let’s figure it out. So we kind of figured it out for that trailer. And then we were saying, okay, well, how can we do this for the different trailers that are going to be in forward? Turns out we couldn’t do it for every trailer that was in forward that year. Um, but we were able to in years after. So 2022, we had audio describe the whole show. Um, but it was definitely an iterative process of figuring out what needs to be done. Who needs to get on board? Um, but I will say we we had the kind of interest we wanted to do it from the beginning in 2020. Mhm. Um, it was just figuring out the logistics of, you know, how do we audio describe all these trailers in time and what’s that process like. So it’s been um a very iterative process. And so I think you also asked how do we bring it to life and then how do we share it? And so those are um, again, different teams. So we have the production team bringing the show, um, whether it’s live and in person or digital or hybrid or both. Um, and we also have social media teams or Ubisoft news teams. So that’s actually where my role is kind of the most, um, most important, where the events team and the social media team, it’s like just bridging that connection for accessibility. So okay, we’ve audio described a trailer. Well, if we don’t tweet about it, how is anyone going to know that we audio described it. So just making that connection to with and considering all the different deadlines and timelines, and we have tons of trailers coming in to help, you know, they all need to be delivered at the same time to produce the show. But then how do we make sure to kind of draw that line between what we produce and how we talk about it, and do we put it in our press release and just all of these different communications aspects and kind of bringing that together? And that’s where my skill set as communications person kind of comes in.
Speaker S1:       (0:30:55):
I love that. Uh, and actually speaking of social media, like, uh, we’ve chatted before about, uh, about, uh, about social media and accessibility and like I like with the amount of social teams that Ubisoft has, like, I can only imagine that it’s very much like herding cats. Uh, you’re always they’re always constantly reacting to everything that’s happening on social media. But also, you know, there’s a lot of, uh, social media assets and posts that are happening, uh, especially around an announcement of a game or just or like, as we said, like around Ubisoft Forward. There’s there’s just a lot that’s being put out there. So what are some of the like, the things that you tell the social teams or what? How do you work with the social teams on trying to be able to, um, uh, make sure that that what they’re putting out is accessible? And what are some of the, uh, the things you tell them, like, hey, here’s how to be able to make these assets accessible.
Speaker S2:       (0:31:47):
So one thing we talked about is kind of the importance of listening to the community. Like, I’m not a social media expert, I’m not a accessible social media expert. I’ve learned a lot over the years, but that’s not my area of expertise. So a lot of it is hearing from the community, oh, hey, this image didn’t have alt text. You made some announcement about how many players are part of the game or your post-launch roadmap. And like, I don’t know what it says. So we kind of see that, raise it to the right team. We figure out, you know, okay, well, how do we establish a better process for including alt text on images? We need to do it on every asset. Do we do it on some assets? If we can’t do everything, you know, any asset where we just have words on just on an image and we’re all of the famous.
Speaker S1:       (0:32:35):
Thing that developers love to be able to do. They do the, the, the notes uh, of like just text on it on a color image, uh, text on a color.
Speaker S2:       (0:32:42):
They love it.
Speaker S1:       (0:32:42):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker S2:       (0:32:44):
Yeah. And so when you have the text on a color, how do you make sure that that has alt text every time. And if you don’t put it out originally, put it in a comment afterwards. So in a reply, um, again, not a social media expert. I still call it Twitter engineer.
Speaker S1:       (0:32:58):
So you know what? You don’t worry about it. I still call it Twitter for more like I just refuse to call it X. So it’s all good.
Speaker S2:       (0:33:06):
Yeah, yeah, but a lot of it’s just about letting, um, like, as a leader in accessibility communications, my role is to help empower others to be experts in their own field of expertise. So I work in communications. I do a lot of connecting dots. I do a lot of pull the information together. You know, who are the the people. We’re we’re getting this from? Where are we putting it out? Um, but yeah, I’m not a social media expert. I’m not an expert on marketing trailers. I can just provide that guidance and direction. Um, but ultimately, it really takes those teams and people getting on board. Um, for us to be able to kind of successfully have an accessible social media strategy.
Speaker S1:       (0:33:48):
Uh, that’s I do like that a lot because it made me think about, uh, essentially it’s like you’re you’re not only giving them best practices on here’s what like what to do and policies and procedures and stuff like that. But you’re also helping to develop the culture of, of accessibility as well. Um, and, you know, and having people think about accessibility instead of just, you know, here’s the, here’s the accessibility you need to do. And then it’s a checklist that they have to sort of check off that you know that here’s like okay, we I got the alt text done that kind of thing. It’s it’s you’re you’re like having you’re helping people actively think about it, uh, in a way that it will just benefit the users, uh, in and of itself. Like, yes, it takes like even just for myself, like adding alt text to an image. I’ve gotten to a habit of doing it every single time. But it is that habit that has to be kind of built over time. So when you’re talking to to teams, whether it’s social or just, you know, in the communications team about building that sort of culture that they’re thinking about accessibility, what are some of the things that that you’re telling them as well as the best practices?
Speaker S2:       (0:34:54):
So we often start with kind of the checklist of, you know, hey, I saw this image. It didn’t have alt text. Here’s why we need it, and here’s how to write alt text. And we actually our social team put together a best practices document. And so they have this resource. I send them the link and I say, hey, I noticed this wasn’t here. Here’s the link. Um, but I think, you know, how does it go beyond the checklist? It really is about those individuals understanding the vision and being passionate about understanding and serving this community. So that’s something where, um, you can’t be a one person show when it comes to being an accessibility advocate at your company, because you will burn out quickly and you’ll feel really bad when things don’t get done that aren’t your responsibility. Um, and I think that’s important. I think it’s really important. Like, I can’t do everything and I shouldn’t and I shouldn’t. Um, all I can do is share best practices with other people, and it’s up to them to kind of see and understand the vision and take it further than the checklist. Um, but I can share the checklist. So that’s kind of the extent of like I can share the checklist, I can share the vision, I can share the needs from the community. Um, but the way we’ve actually gotten so many things done is because the people I’m talking to get it, and then they take it and they implement it on their team. So I love the village.
Speaker S1:       (0:36:21):
It definitely does 100%. It’s and I agree with you. It’s like, yeah, being able to do it on your own. It’s hard. Uh, and you should like, recruit people to help you because then that that’ll help, uh, sort of alleviate some of that, uh, that burnout for sure. Um, but, you know, kind of expanding even beyond that. So we kind of talked about sort of what Ubisoft is, is doing when it comes to marketing and PR for accessibility. Uh, I want to kind of get your thoughts on and what would you sort of suggest to other teams, um, that are looking into they want, you know, they want to market accessibility and do it properly. Um, what are some advice that you would give, uh, those teams, uh, as far as best practices?
Speaker S2:       (0:37:04):
So one approach that’s worked really well for us is starting with a small win. Um, so kind of have a case study. So if there’s something you want to do, and I guess I’ll go back to the audio description in Assassin’s Creed Valhalla. So that was a big brand. It was a big it was their cinematic reveal trailer. Mhm. Um, and so once we had done audio description for that asset, it was something that every other team like okay, we want to do audio description. Here’s the example of how the Assassin’s Creed Valhalla team did that. And here’s the assets. You can take a look at it. It’s on YouTube. It’s not just an idea we had. It’s something that we actually did. It’s doable. And here’s how. So starting with just one win, I didn’t start with audio describing every single asset at forward that year, because that was a little bit too big for where we were at at the time. Um, so yeah, I think starting small and a small win can become a big win, and it can kind of set the blueprint for that, you know, additional like like I was saying someone saying, oh, we audio described that. Like how can I, you know, take that into my area of expertise as well.
Speaker S1:       (0:38:15):
Okay, I love that. And so, um, obviously, you know, obviously like Ubisoft has been a leader in that, uh, for, for a long time, like, but where, uh, where do you see areas that, um, like just within the industry that still need improving or even, you know, within Ubisoft as well that still need improving after like doing this for a few years in. And what do you want to focus on, uh, improving on it for future projects?
Speaker S2:       (0:38:40):
Consistency. Uh, that’s something that, you know, the beginning of our journey, it was about education. It was about what needs to be done. How can we achieve it? Um, consistency is hard. We have that roadmap. We have the case study. Hey, we did this great over here. Why can’t we do it here? So I think that answering that question of like, why can’t we do it here? And how do I anticipate those problems and reach out to that team a little bit earlier? Um, how do I set standards? How do I make sure that they are followed that kind of execution implementation? So that’s something I want to see more at Ubisoft and also in the industry. Um, I did kind of a personal audit of how were other companies communicating about accessibility and doing audio description? Um. It’s inconsistent. It’s hard to find, um, if something was audio described in the past, it’s like really hard to Google and search for it. So I want, um, I want to see that expectation being set that if I’m an audience member attending an event in the gaming space, there will be an audio description somewhere. There will be an American Sign Language if the events in the US like just having regularity and something that people can kind of consistently know, I can find the version I need and here’s where I can find it.
Speaker S1:       (0:40:04):
That’s great. Like, yeah, I think it’s just because it’s all, you know, when you start these things, it’s like it’s all bright and shiny and new and people are excited about it. But it like it’s being able to be consistent with that moving forward because you start this thing and it’s cool. It’s great. You know, you got a lot of great feedback from it, but it’s being able to be consistent because and you’re right, that is hard. It’s like okay yeah you got all your description for one trailer. But now what do you do? How do you do that for now for every trailer that you do. And that’s and that’s something that, uh, can be it can be difficult. Like as as games evolve and change over time, things, you know, come out like like can come up pretty fast or some things you can plan for, but it’s having that consistency is is super key as well. So I like that. That’s a that’s a good answer. Um, and kind of actually a bit of a, of a tangent. It’s been something I’ve been kind of I personally have been sort of thinking about a lot, a lot lately. And because we see, we see within the in the gaming space, but also I think just even outside and like just in talking about accessibility in general, there’s a lot of uh, like oftentimes whenever PR, marketing, um, kind of, uh, wants to talk about accessibility, they kind of, uh, I sort of picture it’s like it’s like a rainbow in the sky that just says inspirational across it. Uh, and it’s there’s always that, you know, it’s so inspiring to see disabled people doing basic tasks that everyone else can do. Uh, and it’s so how how do you either literally avoid or how do you, like, integrate, you know, but like proper information or also just like, how do you sort of avoid that, that pitfall of talking about accessibility in a way that’s like, not that’s not just inspirational, but it’s like there’s value to that, to the disability community.
Speaker S3:       (0:41:59):
I thought of two.
Speaker S2:       (0:41:59):
Ways to answer the question, and one was a little a little sassy. Um, oh be.
Speaker S1:       (0:42:04):
Sassy. I love being sassy. It’s great.
Speaker S2:       (0:42:07):
What would be inspirational is if you consistently did the work. So that’s I love that.
Speaker S1:       (0:42:13):
That’s great. Yes.
Speaker S2:       (0:42:16):
So that’s what I want to tell. Tell teams is that, you know, I’m inspired by consistent implementation of processes and best practices. Um, but, you know, I think a lot of it comes down to dismantling tropes. And that’s something, again, I’m, you know, I’m not disabled. And that’s something where we rely on those experts within our accessibility team. So, um, Darren Thompson on our accessibility team has been extremely helpful in sort of, um, helping with a lot of guidance, guidance, guidelines, um, and just letting us know what is the right tone that we need to take. So if we see a team that kind of comes up with that, uh, overly inspirational, but not like meaningful changes to the accessibility of our game, right? If we don’t have a meaningful content to share? Um, we don’t. We talk to them. We don’t share it. So I think that, you know, leaning on the guidance of the experts that that we have here, um, and making sure if something doesn’t feel right, that we run it by them. So even though that’s not their kind of designated role, that is an area they have, um, expertise in and are able to help guide and shape our decisions and content.
Speaker S1:       (0:43:30):
I love that it’s basically like it’s, you know, you can talk the talk, but you also have to walk it too. Uh, and it’s because then otherwise it can be seen as essentially performative. Uh, and that just even does more harm than the good that you’re thinking that you’re doing. Uh, for sure. And, uh, I like it just it because I’ll even say this, like, as we’re recording, we’re literally recording this on Global Accessibility Awareness Day. And it’s something that kind of came up that I was just like, there’s so many announcements that are happening, uh, across the industry, but just across the, you know, accessibility in general, um, that we’re seeing and it’s just like, you know, some are inspirational. But again, it’s like what I like, what what you and the team and, and the accessibility team over at Ubisoft have been able to do is that it’s that providing that consistency so that it isn’t doesn’t seem as performative. It isn’t seen as just like, inspirational. So you can have those moments. It’s like, you know, I’ve, I’ve been in one of those videos too, where it’s like, you know, inspiration about like accessibility happening at Ubisoft, but, um, it’s being able to back that up with, like, here’s what we’re doing, here’s what we’re showcasing, and allowing that as being part of the announcements. And, and, you know, launches of all of all these games and highlighting a lot of the accessibility that’s there is something that I’ve constantly praised Ubisoft for. And I just personally want to be able to thank you and the team at Ubisoft for, for consistently doing that, uh, for the past several years. And I’m looking forward to seeing what, uh, uh, what more can could come from that. So, um, so thank you, uh, Jessica, for, for, for doing that. And that means a lot.
Speaker S2:       (0:45:07):
Uh, well, thank you for the feedback you’ve shared with us over the years. And I’ve always appreciated, you know, some of your feedback we took from, uh, tweets and YouTube videos that people have shared. And then some of it is you directly pinging us and saying, hey, this tweet doesn’t have alt text, can’t read it. Um, and so sharing that feedback, and I think one thing that is important to share with the community is that we don’t only want your positive feedback, we want to know when we’re messing up, when something isn’t accessible. Um, and that’s really helpful. Like when we see you call us out in a, in a, you know, don’t be mean. Just tell us what you need. Um, it’s really helpful to go back and say, hey, like, someone was hoping for this trailer to be audio described and it wasn’t. And so that helps us say, like, there’s people waiting on this content. So it’s helpful, you know, letting us know when we do well and when we have areas to improve.
Speaker S1:       (0:45:59):
I love that. Um, okay. Well, last question I have for you, uh, Jess, is that what are some resources that, um, like, players or developers can visit to find out more about the cool accessibility stuff that’s being done at Ubisoft, or something that you would recommend as resources to learn more about, uh, how to build to market accessibility.
Speaker S2:       (0:46:21):
So for Ubisoft, we all of our accessibility information lives on news.ubisoft.com. So we have a dedicated accessibility dropdown you can go to and that will have all the spotlights. It will have our Meet the Team. You get to learn more about our accessibility team. So all of our written content kind of has a home. Um, and in terms of other resources, kind of outside of Ubisoft, I’ve learned absolutely so much from the GAConf organizers from attending those events. Um, you know, I think they’re they’re a wealth of knowledge and, and worth following and.
Speaker S1:       (0:46:58):
As a, as a addition to that, definitely go check out Jessica’s talk uh, at GA Conference talking about this exact topic if you want to be able to learn more, it’s a great talk. Make sure to go check it out. There’s videos up on YouTube you can go to search for it. Um, so, uh, yeah. Well, um, thank you again, Jessica, for for being here. I really appreciate it. If people want to be able to, uh, follow you on online and, and, you know, get to catch up or be able to know more about what it is that you’re doing. Uh, where can people be able to follow you?
Speaker S2:       (0:47:27):
Um, formerly Twitter now X um, it’s my first name. Last name. So Jessica Roache, there’s an E on the end.
Speaker S1:       (0:47:34):
Perfect. Cool. Well, thank you all so much for for watching and for listening. If you have any questions, you can contact either myself, Jessica, or the folks at Player Research. If you would like to learn more about what we talked about today, and also check out the rest of the series on advancing accessibility. Thanks again and have a great day and go play some games. Take care

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